Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

And I think everyone accepts that

The think is - you cannot entirely rely on your senses, Brain is the thing which intepretates everything eventually

But we take each other at our words, and each of us enjoy this experience on our own terms

5:16 PM

You can doubt people if you want but at the end of the day it's unnecessary to prove to others taht your tulpa is "real"

Of course, but we can't gather any information about anything if we don't trust our senses

@Smeer , I'm not asking people to prove their tulpas are real. I know experience is real. But experience and interpretation are 2 different things.

And so what are you asking then?

5:20 PM

I could easily be mistaken but it seems like you want something from people or this community, like just experiencing and trying to subjectively learn about tulpas isn't enough.

It is commonly accepted that people in other body's are fully aware and sentient, even though we don't know that for certain. If my tulpa acts like a person then I should give it the benefit of the doubt too

5:23 PM

If somebody acts aware and sentient, then to say that they are is the interpretation that requires the least assumptions, which is normally the best interpretation

You know, characters in the game or movie also seem to act aware and sentient

Every time you watch a movie the characters always do the same thing

5:25 PM

So they can't be aware and sentient

You can watch your life only once.

So it is best to say that everyone is aware and sentient

And what exaclty do we classify as everyone?

Everyone who acts aware and sentient

Are plants aware and sentient? Are children's imaginary friends aware and sentient?

Plants do not act aware or sentient, so no. Some imaginary friend are probably aware, but not all

If I am wrong you should tell me but I'd like to know luna

5:33 PM

What is your reason for questioning everyone so passionately?

5:33 PM

To be honest you sound a little antagonistic sometimes

Do I sound passionate? Well, I don't feel like I am.

I think Luna just enjoys debating

I do

What I'm trying to figure out is if you're arguing for arguments sake or if you actually want something.

5:35 PM

Do you want people to stop thinking tulpas are "aware and sentient?" Just as an example

5:36 PM

An overall change in attitude in the commumity?

I also believe that tulpas are sentient and aware

[To me, it seems like @Deleted User is engaging in a Socratic dialogue.]

I wish people could just admit there is some faith in it and we don't know for sure. And there is nothing wrong with having doubts.

5:37 PM

Being too sure, even gnostic, is very wrong though (edited)

Of course there is faith involved

Okay thank you

5:38 PM

That's what I wanted to hear

[The point of a Socratic dialogue is not for the questioner to inflict their views on the target, but instead to get the target to examine her/his own beliefs under scrutiny.]

Yeah and I like that

5:39 PM

I just wanted to know their motivation

5:40 PM

I agree we don't know everything

5:40 PM

And maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I'm holding out hope that science is able to reach the bottom of this eventually

So do I. But if we want make the community less pseudoscientific we should work on separation of what we know from what we believe. It's not wrong to believe if we don't have strong evidence but only some clues. But we should be aware if we know or believe.

5:44 PM

We could even argue if we know tulpas are sentient... But even if they are, the community seems to promise much more than that.

5:45 PM

They are able to think, and have their own free will, emotions, and memories. In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you. It’s currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient, but in this community, we treat them as such.

Yeah and I agree with that. I guess I just didn't realize it was such a problem

5:46 PM

I'm pretty new to this community

Having free will (do even people have it?), their own emotions, memories, thoughts... Being a person, being separate from you (in what sense?)...

5:47 PM

All of these is what some of us feel about tulpas. Some of these are more arguable than sentience.

The only problem that I have is saying "separate from you" as that is a pretty vague statement

I think it's too vague what constitutes existence for us to judge what constitutes existence for them, so everyone will be acting on their individual belief and it will be hard to really change that

5:49 PM

It's vague, ye. Imo, Same thing with them having their own emotions and memories and thoughts. Are they separate too?

5:50 PM

About free will, I have an interesting video.

5:50 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g

Skeptic

Sam Harris on "Free Will"

The many worlds theory is just wishful thinking imo

So is free will

5:51 PM

Sam Harris lmfaoaoaoaoo

5:51 PM

yeah many worlds is pseud shit for non-pseuds

The many words theory is what people say when they want to sound scientific about having free will

I think we have some level of will

5:52 PM

in that you can just do the thing

It would certainly be nice if we had free will though

eh, we do enough

5:54 PM

it's too abstract to quantify what "more" will look like

Fair enough

You don't have to meditate. Actually, it seems it has negative effect on forcing effectiveness. Nearly every single day count above 20 in that survey also practiced meditation, this is ridiculous. I want to know where this data came from. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GC2kcZrQ9DZCJwvC8H8JJOFtW2zBOxLD/view (edited)

The Big Tulpa Creation Method Survey (Responses) - Form Responses ...

6:44 PM

That's directly counter to the experiences I've read in more detail on the forum.

6:45 PM

Oops, days rather, not hours.

6:49 PM

"How many DAYS did it take you to reach SENTIENCE?" 90
"How many total hours of ACTIVE FORCING did it take you to reach VOCALITY?" 2
"How many total hours of ACTIVE FORCING did it take you to reach SENTIENCE?"  20

6:49 PM

Okay..

what? that makes no sense

How infrequently did they force?

Vocal before sentient

apparently 1 hour every 4 1/2 days

Good grief, averaging it out means they do even less such stuff than I do

6:51 PM

Given that my anticipated rate is 30 minutes every other day or so

I do very little active forcing, but I narrate pretty consistently throughout the day. I think things are going well.

I suspect that after some degree of independence manifests, the rate will increase as I no longer need to go as deep into concentration to interact

sounds about right

#57
Hours to vocality: 2
Hours to sentience: 2
Days to sentience: 2
90% narration
20% of forcing was active
No meditation

6:55 PM

I see there's some real heavy hitters on the no-meditation side.

Sorry, can't open it on mobile. What is the "90% narration?"

Open what?

6:56 PM

90% of their forcing was narration.

The results chart thing

Oh.

It is interesting though, I've had some conveniently specific "ideas" pop up while not even trying to actively emulate, and I've been doing this for what, two days now

6:57 PM

I figured using building blocks from my personality and shadow might help, but this is much faster than expected

24 minutes of active forcing to sentience in the above, by the way.

So if I'm interpreting that right, it looks like they forced 1 hour per day for 2 days, then their tup was sentient and vocal?

yeah

so what I'm hearing is, the data for this survey is pretty borked

Obviously I chose an "interesting" statistic to point out here, though. There's bound to be one or two or ten of those in a survey.

That or I'm really behind.

Still, that pattern is unbelievably present in regards to meditation.

6:58 PM

Nearly all of the "200-360 days to sentience" answers were people who practiced meditation.

6:58 PM

Nearly all of the 2-10 days to sentience didn't.

6:58 PM

That's ridiculous.

6:58 PM

I see why the survey chose medians instead of averages.

6:59 PM

The survey seems set up well enough, so my question is who the heck took this survey.

7:00 PM

Certainly not .info

I don't recall having seen it advertised on the forum or discord at all